Gunner tweaks

[KieZuZ]

YEAH BUDDY have survived a lot of bad situations against us. They have laid devastating combos to completely destroy one of us. Nothing about the comp being overly OP. Its just that they execute their strategy better. We have won rounds against them but simply cant keep up that level of focus for the whole game. Once I swapped from reaver to seeker and I got the feeling that we had a better chance compwise but ended up losing because I'm not good enough with seeker. I think the main reason why people think this comp is op because they dont know how to deal with harb+range

[stothemontage]

YEAH BUDDY have survived a lot of bad situations against us. They have laid devastating combos to completely destroy one of us. Nothing about the comp being overly OP. Its just that they execute their strategy better. We have won rounds against them but simply cant keep up that level of focus for the whole game. Once I swapped from reaver to seeker and I got the feeling that we had a better chance compwise but ended up losing because I'm not good enough with seeker. I think the main reason why people think this comp is op because they dont know how to deal with harb+range

+1, any of my teams farm harb/range normally with quite some ease but not yeah buddy. I haven't felt the comp is OP with any other players. We can take rounds but it doesn't matter, once they are focused/mad it's over for one of us. Pindown grip ex q combos with alch support... I have been blitzed many times when I actually thought I was ahead ^^

[Porrfilm]

Spoiler: show

YEAH BUDDY have survived a lot of bad situations against us. They have laid devastating combos to completely destroy one of us. Nothing about the comp being overly OP. Its just that they execute their strategy better. We have won rounds against them but simply cant keep up that level of focus for the whole game. Once I swapped from reaver to seeker and I got the feeling that we had a better chance compwise but ended up losing because I'm not good enough with seeker. I think the main reason why people think this comp is op because they dont know how to deal with harb+range

+1, any of my teams farm harb/range normally with quite some ease but not yeah buddy. I haven't felt the comp is OP with any other players. We can take rounds but it doesn't matter, once they are focused/mad it's over for one of us. Pindown grip ex q combos with alch support... I have been blitzed many times when I actually thought I was ahead ^^

Why I said that the combo is OP is just this reason Sto, you are pressuring them they hit ONE attack and you're now behind instead. It's why I believe that both execute, shadow bolt and charged bolt needs rework. Attacks that take away all your healed up hp and then some more is just always going to be op if they land. I can also have good rounds vs them then harb hits one grip or an ability is spellblocked leaving you defenseless, vs a normal comp you can take sick damage when eating like 2-3 cds but here it's enough with one from ONE of them to do just the same amount.

[Kernion]

And people for the most part seem to agree you're wrong about execute, shadowbolt and charged bolt.
They like having the burst their and the game isn't imbalanced because of these abilities, your personal view just disagrees with that.

[stothemontage]

No I disagree that isn't because the comp is OP.

Their teamplay and coordination is OP.

Players, not the classes. When it happens to you, it is lame because it is effectively a 1v3. Your teammates are there for a reason - enemy team does coordinated burst, you guys need to spot it early and do a coordinated shutdown of that burst. Else they will win, and they should.

[Skeedo]

They are just trying to homogenize the game and ruin it for everyone.

[Wennberg]

No I disagree that isn't because the comp is OP.

Their teamplay and coordination is OP.

Players, not the classes. When it happens to you, it is lame because it is effectively a 1v3. Your teammates are there for a reason - enemy team does coordinated burst, you guys need to spot it early and do a coordinated shutdown of that burst. Else they will win, and they should.

Sleep into sb+execute deals 794 damage on a stationary target, assumed sb hits first and that sb deals 320 damage, the average damage of sb fyi, also no back hits or traits are used in the calculation so the numbers are a bit off but you get the picture.

Name one other combo dealing that much damage with 2 damaging spells, neither of them can be an ulti. Extra points for finding such a combo not involving sb or execute. Further extra points for naming a combo performed by an actually viable comp.

[Entarion]

Since you used 3 spells in your example too: WW (120dmg) into volcano(240dmg) and meteor(220)/instant injection(250ish). Roughly 600 without any power.
No aiming required with WW since it's a melee range ability > volcano not interruptable unlike sbolt/execute.
You can also easily combo an m1 from both dps right off it, resulting in way more damage with 1 single combo that is harder to avoid.

[Wennberg]

Since you used 3 spells in your example too: WW (120dmg) into volcano(240dmg) and meteor(220)/instant injection(250ish). Roughly 600 without any power.
No aiming required with WW since it's a melee range ability > volcano not interruptable unlike sbolt/execute.
You can also easily combo an m1 from both dps right off it, resulting in way more damage with 1 single combo that is harder to avoid.

Yes, but for that you have to use energy and the damage you did is lower than with sleep into sb into execute.

[Entarion]

Since you used 3 spells in your example too: WW (120dmg) into volcano(240dmg) and meteor(220)/instant injection(250ish). Roughly 600 without any power.
No aiming required with WW since it's a melee range ability > volcano not interruptable unlike sbolt/execute.
You can also easily combo an m1 from both dps right off it, resulting in way more damage with 1 single combo that is harder to avoid.

Yes, but for that you have to use energy and the damage you did is lower than with sleep into sb into execute.

It's easier to pull off and you dont have to use energy, 1 m1 from iggy that's easy to hit right after volcano aswel as from sm would sum up in more damage. Just stop trying to compare stuff like this, it's pointless =)

[Wennberg]

Since you used 3 spells in your example too: WW (120dmg) into volcano(240dmg) and meteor(220)/instant injection(250ish). Roughly 600 without any power.
No aiming required with WW since it's a melee range ability > volcano not interruptable unlike sbolt/execute.
You can also easily combo an m1 from both dps right off it, resulting in way more damage with 1 single combo that is harder to avoid.

Yes, but for that you have to use energy and the damage you did is lower than with sleep into sb into execute.

It's easier to pull off and you dont have to use energy, 1 m1 from iggy that's easy to hit right after volcano aswel as from sm would sum up in more damage. Just stop trying to compare stuff like this, it's pointless =)

Umm no, it would not deal more damage. WW=120 damage, volcano=240 damage, sm m1=160, igniter m1=160, total outcome 680 damage, which in my book is way less than the 794 damage on the harb gunner combo. Even if you change the order of sb and execute it still does more damage.

Sidenote energy gain on the sm igniter combo=26, energy gain on the harb gunner combo=30. Note that I didn't compare the other spells of the bloodlines and their energy gain, just decided to throw this in as a little "fun fact".

[Entarion]

If you insist we can also get an estimated amount of times you can pull the sbolt and execute combo off compared to ww + volcano and count the amount of damage it would do overall with estimated energy /round and then also think of wait for it

Spoiler: show

not..

Spoiler: show

yet..

Spoiler: show

patience young padawan

Spoiler: show

you can't compare combos like that, this isn't theorycraft champions

[Wennberg]

If you insist we can also get an estimated amount of times you can pull the sbolt and execute combo off compared to ww + volcano and count the amount of damage it would do overall with estimated energy /round and then also think of wait for it

Spoiler: show

not..

Spoiler: show

yet..

Spoiler: show

patience young padawan

Spoiler: show

you can't compare combos like that, this isn't theorycraft champions

You're impossible to discuss with you know that? When ever you're proven wrong you get uber defensive and claim that my argument is invalid. You use faulty numbers.

Then you say execute deals 500dmg and execute shadowbolt almost 1000dmg. It is really hard to take you seriously after blowing everything on your first post.

I interpret this as, "you used wrong facts therefore you shan't be taken seriously". And now I say to you, You used wrong facts, ignored my arguments and refuse to bring anything new to the table. To me this seems like you are just trying to protect your comp, either that or you're trolling.

Spoiler: show

Please correct me where I'm wrong.

Spoiler: show

And no, l2p scrub is not correcting me.

Spoiler: show

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough” - Einstein

[Gazhag]

Ok, lets say you hit a sleep, now gunner starts to cast an execute right after it lands and harbinger will wait 0.55s first and then starts casting shadow bolt (so they will hit at the same time). Now, the slept target has 2 teammates and they have 1.65s time after the sleep to stop it (assuming gunner starts execute right after sleep). And yes, that is a lot of time in a fast paced game like blc, you're not just going to sit around doing nothing while they are channeling their spells. You have 3 good options to stop it.

1. Interrupt gunner
2. Interrupt harb
3. Give a support ability to the slept target (most comps got at least one of those)

And believe it or not, that is not easy at all to pull off. We have tried it a lot of times but have successfully done it only a dozen times in hundreds of games, and almost never against a high team.

Also the combos you were comparing, first of all the other one is a 3-man combo and the other one is a 2-man combo.
Second of all, volcano is 0.4s cast and it's an aoe so you can't bodyblock it or reflect it back and hardly have enough time to go interrupt igniter before he finishes casting volcano.

[Wennberg]

Ok, lets say you hit a sleep, now gunner starts to cast an execute right after it lasts and harbinger will wait 0.55s first and then starts casting shadow bolt (so they will hit at the same time). Now, the slept target has 2 teammates and they have 1.65s time after the sleep to stop it (assuming gunner starts execute right after sleep). And yes, that is a lot of time in a fast paced game like blc, you're not just going to sit around doing nothing while they are channeling their spells. You have 3 good options to stop it.

1. Interrupt gunner
2. Interrupt harb
3. Give a support ability to the slept target (most comps got at least one of those)

And believe it or not, that is not easy at all to pull off. We have tried it a lot of times but have successfully done it only a dozen times in hundreds of games, and almost never against a high team.

Also the combos you were comparing, first of all the other one is a 3-man combo and the other one is a 2-man combo.
Second of all, volcano is 0.4s cast and it's an aoe so you can't bodyblock it or reflect it back and hardly have enough time to go interrupt igniter before he finishes casting volcano.

THANK YOU for an actual answer. They are rare when discussing with jouhu and entarion.

"We have tried it a lot of times but have successfully done it only a dozen times in hundreds of games" this is also one of the problems I see with the combo, I've argued with entarion about it in the other gunner thread go there for details but the jist of it is that I think that execute is too situational to work for this game.
It's a long cast time and to compensate this they gave it high burst damage, something I feel doesn't belong in blc. Team work does, not one man-cc-into-nuke-army.