Gunner tweaks

[Wennberg]

ITT: We want to nerf Gunner and Harbringer because we can't beat YEAH BUDDY.
Maybe throw in another nerf for Alchemist just because as well.

ITT we hate high risk-high reward abilities because you we find them *peeeeep* stupid. YEAH BUDDY just brought them in to the light.

[Porrfilm]

i don't understand why jouho is trying so hard to defend gunner, it's clearly broken... same with harb, EVERYONE is complaining about it and it's nothing to do with the fact you are dominating, the truth is you are dominating cause your the only team playing at the moment.

i complain more when a shit tier team beats me playing harb gunner because none of my team can go in vs that shit.

you can tell me you don't turtle all you want but the fact of the matter is you can't pass the wall that is harb gunner so even if the harb gunner is offensive there is still a wall you can't pass.


the things i don't like about it is:
hemo, it has 0 downtime and is just plain dumb, prety much makes missing impossible because you are so slowed
execute, still does too much damage
blind, too easy to hit

+1, only I consider the combo of 2 high risk high reward spells worse. But yes the fact of the matter as you so nicely put it is that you can't engage and you can't outturtle, you could outskill but then you'd need the harb or the gunner to *peeeeep* up BIIIIIG time due to the IMMENSE amount of outs.

[Prestoqt]

the only thing yeah buddy revolutionalized was the fact they could play a turtle wall comp aggressively and get the exact same results, and they only managed that because they could train vs really shitty opponents for over 2 months.


and to people saying im annoyed cause i can't beat them i have only ever played against yeah buddy twice and i was playing with an engi so not only were we outskilled but outcomped aswell

[msp]

90% here dont know meta ...

[Wennberg]

90% here dont know meta ...

Not liking the current meta =/= not knowing meta. Just saying.

[Entarion]

the only thing yeah buddy revolutionalized was the fact they could play a turtle wall comp aggressively and get the exact same results, and they only managed that because they could train vs really shitty opponents for over 2 months.


and to people saying im annoyed cause i can't beat them i have only ever played against yeah buddy twice and i was playing with an engi so not only were we outskilled but outcomped aswell

When we started playing together we played quite a bit versus x6, 4k, mr2s team and the likes of those, if you consider them shitty opponents then your statement is right I guess.

Stop making this thread about my team too please, thank you

[Sapador]

Put this in spoiler if you don't want to hear more why gunner is boring.

Spoiler: show

the only thing yeah buddy revolutionalized was the fact they could play a turtle wall comp aggressively and get the exact same results, and they only managed that because they could train vs really shitty opponents for over 2 months.


and to people saying im annoyed cause i can't beat them i have only ever played against yeah buddy twice and i was playing with an engi so not only were we outskilled but outcomped aswell

When we started playing together we played quite a bit versus x6, 4k, mr2s team and the likes of those, if you consider them shitty opponents then your statement is right I guess.

Stop making this thread about my team too please, thank you

Oh presto just thinks that every team that he cant play with is shit, so yes you beat a ton of good teams and no your team is showing why gunner is stupid imo so one more roundup from me.

MrDandictory's agressive reaver ranid team got shut down with just gunner running away, that space stun is just bullshit. X6 was prolly somewhat closer and got some rounds with their crazy meteor nuke (which got nerfed a bit at least). 4kings plays more gunner now because playing agressive glutton is just impossible vs a gunner again due to unstopable space stun and insane kiteability with e and ex1. that alone glutton can deal with but one grip from harb makes gunner untouchable and glutton gets punished just so hard. Our team only played you 2 times or so but it was never close, only time we had a chance when we nuked your healer and you were a bit out of position.

One of the biggest things with gunner is just when one of your teammates gets a grip or a stun to get out some cooldowns from the oponent then gunner can just do a ton of damage without getting punished. It just feels like getting punished for using outs how they are supposed to be used.

Now i can stop talking about your team and just throw out some suggestions. First space stun, either make it a slow or about half the size, it's the biggest aoe stun in the game... on an out.

Big berta is a really awesome ability and fun to use but pretty bad compared to ex1 and ult and often not worth the energy. I would place a bit weaker version of it on the current e, so you can use it as an out but it is dodgeable and requires more thought of when to use it instead of just using it between m1s really quick when you see a melee walking in your direction.

As new ex I would suggest EX stealth to get speed instead of stealth to catch up to oponents.
Current stealth could maybe get a small duration nerf since big berta might get you more time than current e.

Just some thoughts to make gunner more fun.

[Entarion]

MrDandictory's agressive reaver ranid team got shut down with just gunner running away, that space stun is just bullshit. X6 was prolly somewhat closer and got some rounds with their crazy meteor nuke (which got nerfed a bit at least). 4kings plays more gunner now because playing agressive glutton is just impossible vs a gunner again due to unstopable space stun and insane kiteability with e and ex1. that alone glutton can deal with but one grip from harb makes gunner untouchable and glutton gets punished just so hard. Our team only played you 2 times or so but it was never close, only time we had a chance when we nuked your healer and you were a bit out of position.

Mr2s team beat us when they played smart and punished Gaz for going in with that very setup.
VS 4Kings even with Glutton, we can't play harb and we just play ranid gunner alch because they know how to shut us down as gunner/harb.

First space stun, either make it a slow or about half the size, it's the biggest aoe stun in the game... on an out.

The space stun as of now doesn't allow the gunner for any followup and it just makes sure that you can't instantly jump after him or just grip him back in I guess.

Overall minor tweaks are the way to go in any way to balance a bloodline and by completely reworking abilities and throwing random stuff around it'd result in it getting overbuffed or overnerfed.

Spoiler: show

And yes, Presto has somewhat of a personal grudge against me and my team too, that doesn't generally contribute to the discussion though

[Sapador]

First space stun, either make it a slow or about half the size, it's the biggest aoe stun in the game... on an out.

The space stun as of now doesn't allow the gunner for any followup and it just makes sure that you can't instantly jump after him or just grip him back in I guess.

Overall minor tweaks are the way to go in any way to balance a bloodline and by completely reworking abilities and throwing random stuff around it'd result in it getting overbuffed or overnerfed.

Sorry for my faulty knowledge on your team btw. (partly why i spoilered it cause I didn't think it was that important)
(btw how does your team do vs mamutz team, seeker being one of the best bloodlines vs gunner)

As to space stun, it can follow up the own blind (situational) but bigger problem is it gives you a ton of damage and a free hit from a teammate as well. It is undodgeable at the same time cause the aoe is too big to walk out of even if you see it.

I suggest those changes because I think gunners playstyle is just not fun and fitting for this game and I know my suggestions are a pretty big rework to a somewhat balanced bloodline but if you fix the space which is just frustrating and there is not reason for it to be that way it would be a good step.

The idea with berta is just another way to make it more fun since e is really boring to deal with as well (you are slowed and even have to wait before you can use any mobility spell to do something again because of spellblock.
Imo it shouldn't be that hard to balance but I agree that this game balance is fragile and can easily tip gunner from slightly op to completely useless or even more op.

I think it is worth it though to improve gunners playstyle in the next few patches and I think my suggestions although very basic are a great change to the game.

[eshu]

I don't have much top-level playing experience, but I think there should always be a way to visually "Dodge" an ability. For example, nomad's sluggish bomb used to have no indicator and you can just toss it without the opponent knowing whether he/she can dodge it or not. Same goes for ranid's bomb. Ravener's Ulti used to have no indicator, but that was added around 2.0.

Since the space has a cast time (short but still a cast time) there should be an indicator around the gunner showing the radius of the stun. Like previously mentioned in the post, it's very large (so maybe a slight nerf to the radius would be fine, but that's not my point), so dodging it is almost impossible, but I think even knowing that the gunner is going to space and having the option to react to it is a slight step in the right direction.

[Porrfilm]

I don't have much top-level playing experience, but I think there should always be a way to visually "Dodge" an ability. For example, nomad's sluggish bomb used to have no indicator and you can just toss it without the opponent knowing whether he/she can dodge it or not. Same goes for ranid's bomb. Ravener's Ulti used to have no indicator, but that was added around 2.0.

Since the space has a cast time (short but still a cast time) there should be an indicator around the gunner showing the radius of the stun. Like previously mentioned in the post, it's very large (so maybe a slight nerf to the radius would be fine, but that's not my point), so dodging it is almost impossible, but I think even knowing that the gunner is going to space and having the option to react to it is a slight step in the right direction.

This is actually a really good point, as far as I know all aoe effects now have an indicator except for space abilties, examples would be VG, gunner and guardian(ex).

[trickshot]

as far as I know

Seems to be the problem of all your posts.

all aoe effects now have an indicator except for space abilties

Can't remember Whirling Blade being on Space by default.

[Porrfilm]

as far as I know

Seems to be the problem of all your posts.

all aoe effects now have an indicator except for space abilties

Can't remember Whirling Blade being on Space by default.

First of all, everyone needs to stop NITPICKING in what other people say it's getting old, secondly, you can only speak from what you know, thus as far as I know should start every post because thats obvious. Seeing as that is the case do you want to add an indicator for whirling blade, meat and eat and guardians splash hit (only 3 I could think of)

[trickshot]

First of all, everyone needs to stop NITPICKING in what other people say it's getting old

Nah, nitpicking is fun.